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    Thursday, March 30, 2006

    More Chinese Organs: This is disturbing, even for a totalitarian regime:

    A former employee of Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine told The Epoch Times during a recent interview that the Sujiatun Concentration Camp in China was actually a part of a hospital. The concentration camp has engaged in taking organs from Falun Gong practitioners when they were still alive and selling the organs. Since 2001, the concentration camp has secretly detained approximately 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners, none of whom have been able to leave the camp alive. The hospital removed many kidneys, livers, and corneas from the practitioners. After the organ removal, the practitioners were thrown into an incinerator, which was converted from a boiler. Their ashes were dumped together with burned charcoal.

    Jay Nordlinger has more:

    And, in a strange twist, he bore witness to organ-harvesting, while a young medical researcher in China, years ago. Prisoners would be shot in the back of the head, and their bodies would be hustled to a waiting van. There, doctors would extract their organs; Charles Lee served as an assistant, holding the instruments. Sometimes, the prisoners seemed not quite dead, he says.
     

    posted by Sydney on 3/30/2006 01:19:00 PM 8 comments

    8 Comments:

    This is for real? How reliable is the Epoch times? Man this is alarming if entirely true. I didn't want to believe it, but ran a search at Google news and found a related story on the 28th:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,,1741784,00.html

    By Anonymous Allen Searls, at 4:02 PM  

    Here's another related story.

    There's a temporary ban on the sale and purchase of organs. This came after Japanese tourists fell ill or die after receiving transplant in China.



    more...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4853188.stm

    By Anonymous ipanema, at 6:28 AM  

    I agree someone needs to check this out! I've posted the following on a UK doctors web site to see if anyone knows the truth or otherwise of the allegations

    Regards

    David Nicholl

    "It is well known that China executes more people than the rest of the World combined (at least 3400/year according to Amnesty, although the Chinese have always refused to publish figures, the actual number is thought to be many thousands more than this).

    According to this Chinese hospital (http://en.zoukiishoku.com/list/facts.htm)
    , they will find you a kidney (or other organ) if you need a transplant in less than a week for a fee, this suggests to me they that they must have prisoners already HLA typed etc etc essentially to be executed to order!

    According to a Chinese paper (?reliable, the Epoch Times http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-3-11/39169.html)(http://medpundit.blogspot.com/2006/03/more-chinese-organs-this-is-disturbing.html). A former employee of Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine told The Epoch Times during a recent interview that the Sujiatun Concentration Camp in China was actually a part of a hospital. The concentration camp has engaged in taking organs from Falun Gong practitioners when they were still alive and selling the organs. Since 2001, the concentration camp has secretly detained approximately 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners, none of whom have been able to leave the camp alive. The hospital removed many kidneys, livers, and corneas from the practitioners. After the organ removal, the practitioners were thrown into an incinerator, which was converted from a boiler. Their ashes were dumped together with burned charcoal.

    I also obtained this next interview from a journalist I know in Hong Kong (the original interview is from a Chinese paper)

    "a survey of medical centres revealed Mainland surgeons transplanted 3,741 livers, 8,103 kidneys and 80 hearts last year, according to industry sources, said but a lack of records on follow-up care made survival rates – believed to be 3-5 years - difficult to calculate.
    China’s use of organs from executed prisoners will continue to hold back its transplant industry as long as authorities fail to enact laws regulating how and when the body parts can be used, according to but a leading mainland transplant surgeon says fewer than 20 people have voluntarily donated organs on the mainland since 2000.
    Professor Chen Zhonghua from Wuhan’s Tongji Hospital estimates that more than 99 per cent organ transplants in China come from executed prisoners.
    But sources say the mainland will have to consider other donor sources as the number of executions declines and demand for transplants increases.
    China is second only to the United States in the number of transplants it performs and the number of surgeries is on the rise.
    “It’s impossible for anybody or organisation to get accurate statistics in the absence of a registration system to monitor organ sources, surgery processes and recipients on the mainland,” one source said.
    “But you have to include the possibility that some commercial centres have omitted mentioning surgery on foreign patients due to the sensitive source of organs and other hospitals may have exaggerated the number of surgeries they have performed as a way of inflating their reputation.”
    Professor Chen said the number of liver transplants performed in China doubled in the past two years, while the number of kidney transplants jumped from 5,000 to more than 8,000.
    And without a brain death definition rule and organ donation and transplant laws, fewer than 20 voluntary donors had contributed transplants in China since 2000.
    Professor Chen said each top-level hospital in every major city had an organ transplant centre, and each year, at least 1,000 transplant surgeons took part in the annual meeting of the Chinese Society of Transplantation.
    He said a lack of regulation meant that prices for surgery varied from tens of thousands of yuan to hundreds of thousands of yuan.
    Professor Chen said the main cost involved was in organ procurement, particularly the expense of going through court and police channels.
    “Many hospitals have PR staff and their targets are the local courts because without judicial approval and assistance, hospitals cannot approach prisoners or get blood tests,” he said.
    Driven by the huge profits, a number of large commercial transplant centres have emerged in recent years and have advertised their services overseas.
    Due to the relative ease of getting organs in Chinese hospitals, more and more foreign patients who would otherwise have to wait for years to get a replacement organ are coming to China for operations, a practice that has attracted harsh criticism from the Word Health Organisation.
    Authorities were silent on the issue until November when Vice Health Minister Huang Jiefu told a WHO meeting in Manila that China would regulate organ procurement from executed prisoners.
    An industry source said a commercial transplant hospital in northern China paid 20 million yuan to reserve the procurement of organs from all the executed prisoners in the area.
    “But you cannot confirm this rumour, because nobody in the industry will break the rule of silence, even though everybody knows the procurement of organs from executed prisoners is almost the only way to get organs in China,” the source said.
    Before the Ministry of Health issued a rule this week to ban on any kind of organ sales and raise the entry threshold for institutes wishing to carry out the procedures, there was only a temporary rule issued by the Ministry of Public Security, the Supreme Court and several other state departments in October, 1984.
    That rule stipulated that the organs of executed prisoners could be procured for medical use on the condition the donations were voluntary or they came from the bodies of unclaimed prisoners.
    But with the high demand for organs and lax administration, hospitals have tried to increase the number of organ donors by appealing to court and police officials.
    “Once a court agrees, the doctors can go to the execution field, wait in a sterile van, and harvest the organ right after the execution,” a transplant surgeon said.
    “Such experiences are a severe moral and mental shock to many surgeons, because the prisoners do not usually die immediately after they are shot. But surgeons have to take quick action to get the organs due to freshness requirements.
    “To some extent, the doctors are part of the execution. That is too much for many young doctors to accept … but that is the fact, and if you want to do the transplants you have to admit to reality.”
    Professor Chen said: “Transplant surgeons are not to be blamed. It’s the malfeasance of the government. Because as the doctors would say, ‘if the police and government don’t regulate, why should we worry? And After all, we are rescuing patients’.”
    Despite the failures of the existing situation, Professor Chen was optimistic about the future of organ transplants on the mainland, with more open discussion of legislation and greater social awareness of the issue.
    “China has to change the current model, to encourage voluntary donation and accelerate the legislation in the field,” he said. "

    ....

    Given that some are suggesting that organs should be allowed to be sold (http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v69/n6/abs/5000262a.html) and China executes more prisoners than anywhere else, there is the potential for (by my estimate) an up to £170 million/year business just for the kidneys given that China executes at least 3400 people/year (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4409857.stm).

    This is barbaric, and seems to be working on the same principles as Auschwitz....but a lot more lucratively!!!

    Why have we not seen some journalist expose of this?? Some journo needs to check this out esp the Falun Gong angle.

    [as you know I have been a bit too busy (understatement!) on the campaigning front lately, anyone else got any leads on this???]

    Regards


    David

    References

    BBC
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4853188.stm


    The Epoch Times
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-3-11/39169.html

    Guardian
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,,1741784,00.html

    The Independent
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article352535.ece

    Kidney International
    http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v69/n6/abs/5000262a.html


    Diflo T Use of organs from executed Chinese prisoners. Lancet Dec 2004 Vol 364;s30-31"

    By Anonymous Dr David Nicholl, at 3:32 PM  

    Hi, here are more news on the authenticity of the concentration camp allegation:

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046-7583,00.html

    ‘’It appears the claims by Falun Gong have been at least substantially exaggerated. Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed'’

    Now, if there is no concentration camp, rather isolated cases of abuse and irregularity contrary to Chinese law, then there exists a very different reality than what’s alleged.

    While I agree China’s human rights abuse should be examined, as with all human rights abusers in
    the world including my own country USA - lifting data from websites and writing allegory of “Schindler’s List” is not the way.

    If we in the West can not be precise with our facts, only resort to nefarious indictment, who will take what we say seriousely?

    By Blogger bobby fletcher, at 7:11 PM  

    There's a lot out there on this topic. Of course, an investigation is what is required to verify and rectify this genocide. The word is that the UN and the US have made such a request. The concern is that it might be too late by the time they get there as apparently the slaughtering has begun already.

    There is a lot of denial as well mainly from the CCP and their affiliates and pro-CCP advocates who have gone on all the blogs to spread the denial. The last thing the CCP wants to do is to admit to their crimes against humanity. The Foreign Affairs Departments will deny this as well as long as an international investigation hasn't been conducted.


    So far I’ve seen one investigative report on Sujiatun from (NGO) WOIPFG. It
    is worth checking.

    http://www.zhuichaguoji.org/en/

    And there is a positive reaction from Congress–

    STATE DEPARTMENT BRIEFINGS
    Daily Press Briefing
    Adam Ereli, Deputy Spokesman
    Washington, DC
    March 31, 2006
    ………..
    QUESTION: Okay. I would like to switch the topic a little bit. About the
    recent revealed Sujiatun concentration camp where it is said thousands of
    Falun Gong practitioners were killed for their organs, what is the State
    Department’s comment about that?
    MR. ERELI: Well, obviously, any such reports are taken very seriously by us.
    We haven’t been able to confirm them. We have contacted the Government of
    China about them. The Chinese have publicly denied the allegations. We’ve
    made the point that a further investigation would be helpful. We urge that
    it be done. So at this point, they are basically unconfirmed reports and
    we’ve raised them and we’ve urged a full investigation.
    QUESTION: Did you suggest any international investigation or a third party —
    MR. ERELI: No. We’ve raised it with the Chinese and urged them to
    investigate.
    QUESTION: Okay.

    Here’s a few media reports I came across. It is worth mentioning that
    National Review has interviewed Jin Zhong who is the first witness.

    US presses China for probe on Falun Gong organ harvesting claim
    PP
    369 words
    31 March 2006
    06:35 PM
    Agence France Presse
    English
    Copyright Agence France-Presse, 2006 All reproduction and presentation
    rights reserved.

    WASHINGTON, March 31, 2006 (AFP) -

    The United States pressed China Friday for a probe into claims by the Falun
    Gong spiritual group that thousands of its followers at Chinese
    concentration camps have been killed and their organs harvested and sold.

    "The Chinese have publicly denied the allegations. We've made the point that
    a further investigation would be helpful. We urge that it be done," deputy
    State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told reporters.

    "Well, obviously, any such reports are taken very seriously by us. We
    haven't been able to confirm them. We have contacted the government of China
    about them," Ereli said.

    Asked whether the United States had suggested any international
    investigation, he said: "No, we've raised it with the Chinese and urged them
    to investigate."

    The Falun Gong spiritual movement had alleged that as many as 75 percent of
    its 6,000 followers held in a state-run camp in the Sujiatun district of the
    northern Chinese city of Shenyang had been cremated after they were killed
    and their organs harvested and sold.

    In a statement Friday, the movement, quoting "a veteran medical doctor who
    has served in the Shenyang military zone," said there were 36 such camps and
    that "the scope of the problem far exceeds that previously imagined."

    The largest camp, codenamed "672-S," is said to hold over 120,000 people,
    among whom are Falun Gong and other "prisoners of conscience," it said.

    There has been no independent confirmation of the Falun Gong reports.

    The Chinese communist leadership consider the rise of Falun Gong as a mass
    movement and a threat to its power, rights groups have said.

    Since the banning of the Falun Gong in 1999, estimates of adherents who died
    in custody due to torture, abuse and neglect ranged from several hundred to
    a few thousand, according to the State Department annual human rights report
    released in early March.

    In addition to being sentenced to reeducation-through-labor camps, some
    Falun Gong members were sent to detention facilities specifically
    established to "rehabilitate" practitioners who refused to recant their
    belief voluntarily after release from the camps, it said.


    U.N. envoy looks at Falun Gong torture allegations
    http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2
    006-03-30T155024Z_01_L30516921_RTRUKOC_0_UK-CHINA-UN-TORTURE.xml&archived
    =False

    A place called Sujiatun
    http://www.nationalreview.com/nordlinger/nordlinger200603300722.asp

    Toronto Sun: For sale: $25,000 for a liver
    http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Worthington_Peter/2006/03/25/15
    05613.html

    Washington Times: China harvesting inmates’ organs, journalist says
    http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060323-114842-5680r.htm

    News Max: Report: China Selling Prisoners’ Body Parts
    http://view.e.newsmax.com/?ffcb10-fe8f10737263027d70-fe2415797d6d027f7316
    70-ff2c1d70746d

    Directorio participates in Falung Gong press conference before the UN
    http://www.directorio.org/press_releases/press_releases.php?note_id=966

    By Anonymous Luke, at 3:14 PM  

    Sunday service has been at my blog, too. He seems to be running all over the internet defending a regime that has murdered seventy seven million of its own people on the ground that there is no evidence that they might be murdering more of them at Sunjiatun. He seems unimpressed by the fact that a diplomat who gave the report any credence would be promptly expelled from the country, and that the diplomatic consequences of seeming to do so would be something any government would want to avoid without absolute proof.

    And absolute proof is hard to come by in a police state.

    BTW, Sunday service is not a Christian. He is apparently an American who visited a congregation of the State-controlled Three Self Movement (the psuedo-Protestant mock church, which the government controls down to the sermons preached there). He claims that there is religious freedom in China, and at the same time defends the laws against religous instruction of people under 16 and the imprisonment and commitment to "re-education camps" of ministers and church leaders who refuse to take their orders from Beijing.

    My experience with him is that the more he posts, the more he discredits himself. I personally banned him because he won't read rebuttals, won't engage in good-faith dialog, and was turning my blog into a means of propaganda for literally the most murderous regime in recorded history.

    Oh. And he has so little sense of history that he actually believes that the genocide of the American Indians- horrific as it was- somehow makes American worse than a regime that has murdered seventy seven million of its own people as a matter of state policy. That is nearly as incredible as his refusal to see that such a track record itself automatically puts
    any regime under suspicion when allegations such as the ones about Sujiatun arise.

    Oh, BTW... the latest information from Chinese dissidents (some of whom, remember, claim to be eye witnesses- though from Sunday's point of view eye witness testimony isn't evidence)is that the prisoners at Sujiatun are being sent to other, smaller camps throughout China. Look for the camp to be opened for public inspection just as soon as the relocation is completed.

    By Blogger Bob Waters, at 10:13 AM  

    US investigators find no evidence of Sujiatun concentration camp:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060415/pl_afp/uschinasectpolitics_060415004729

    "Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions," McCormack said.

    "In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital."

    This finding was reported by The Australian weeks prior:

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046-7583,00.html

    "It appears the claims by Falun Gong have been at least substantially exaggerated. Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed"

    By Blogger bobby fletcher, at 9:38 PM  

    Sunday Service,
    Please be patient because there is lots of evidence already which need to be substantiated by the investigation team. A report will be out soon.

    In the meantime you might want to read the http://www.ninecommentaries.com which tells the shocking uncensored history of the Communist Party. Part 7 is truly disgusting. It seems that the Party has been on a killing spree for the last 100 years and nobody has ever said 'boo' to them. It's high time that they be help responsible for their crimes against humanity.

    Hang on Bobby, the evidence is a mile high.

    By Anonymous Luke, at 6:45 PM  

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